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Monday, September 21, 2015

Squishy numbers: Why it’s harder than ever to talk about poverty in CMS














Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/education/your-schools-blog/article35435202.html#storylink=cpy



44 comments:

  1. It's all part of the "strategy" to use bogus numbers for ALL education studies.

    Seriously. I've commented on this before. This started when they decided to change the "gold standard" for education studies from those which were ACTUAL STUDIES of REAL, LIVE STUDENTS to "studies" which could be inferred from data kept in federal databases.

    And we all KNOW how thorough and reliable those federal databases are.

    Especially when they DO NOT ask questions like how much money you make or any other REAL information about your family status.

    So, as a result, most of the education "studies" out there use CRAP DATA and proxy the hell out of what they have to finagle whatever results they wish to see.

    It's truly a sad thing.

    But it's so obscure that most people don't even notice.

    That's why I CRINGE when someone says "studies show".

    Most "studies" are bullshit and pure statistical manipulation of doubtful data today...

    The so-called "gold standard" of research was changed back around 2010.

    The "problem" was that there were so few real studies that the educrats felt that a lot of "good" potential solutions were being missed, so they opened the floodgates for crappier "studies" to be given higher ratings.

    (Sounds a bit like the other problem in "education", grade inflation...)

    https://educblog.wordpress.com/2010/11/22/u-s-department-of-education-broadens-definition-of-gold-standard-research/

    Anyway, we reap what we sow.

    Interesting to me that one of the big data crunching companies was really pushing for this change, too.

    What a coincidence.

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  2. Speaking of grade inflation, I recently ran upon a few of these really old EIGHTH GRADE GRADUATION tests that have been in the news lately.

    I seriously doubt that today's typical HS graduate could answer most of the questions, even after studying the material.

    And just in case someone thinks these tests came from some high-faluting, rich school district, here's one from the BACKWOODS OF KENTUCKY...

    http://www.bullittcountyhistory.com/bchistory/schoolexam1912.html

    And a Wash. Post blogger commentary and comparison of those earlier tests to "modern" tests for the same grade...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/century-old-8th-grade-exam-can-you-pass-a-1912-test/2012/01/04/gIQAxjC00P_blog.html

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/history/take-this-1931-8th-grade-gradu.html

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  3. Oh, yeah, and since the 1931 test took place DURING THE DEPRESSION, it demonstrates how people did not let "poverty" stand in the way of their learning.

    Of course, a lot of people probably never got past eighth grade, but I'll bet that made high school a lot more challenging and rewarding for those who did.

    Not like today where a HS graduate may not even read at a third grade level.

    I definitely know that SOME eighth grade "graduates" can't.

    At least not when I was in my "urban" HS reading History tests to those basketball players.

    Yet, look how much people squeal when anyone suggests that children be kept in third grade until they actually learn how to read.

    Probably the best thing that could be done for many of them.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Shamash,

    My great grandmother and grandmother - who lived through the depression - were one room school house teachers in rural PA. Classes were multi-age so there was no such thing as holding a kid back who couldn't read in 3rd grade. Teacher training consisted of attending 2-year "normal" schools. My grandmother attended Swarthmore Normal School. Early one room school houses had no electricity and no running water. My father attended a one room school house. His father dropped out of Penn State Univ. during the depression to take care of his family. My grandfather then owned a family grocery store that failed, sold shoes for a shoe company during WW II that failed, before securing a job with the U.S. postal service that gave him a pension and allowed he and my grandmother to eventually retire and travel around the United States with a small hitch-up camper.

    I'd be curious to know how the Amish - who only attend school through the 8th grade - compare to other students in the U.S. in reading and math. I lived in a rural PA town, population 650, for two years while my husband earned a MBA and I taught as an adjunct dance professor at Penn State. We regularly had an Amish man come to our front door to sell us vegetables out of his buggy. An Amish family currently live on the farm my Mennonite grandmother - who married a Presbyterian - grew up on. We visited the farm and the Amish family who live there after her funeral. The Amish family seemed to be doing OK without a free lunch, free laptop, or free "wrap around" services. OK, so a little off the grid for most people but just saying.

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    1. I wish I could find the source, but when I was doing some ancestor research, I saw where one of my relatives went to school at what was called a "Poor School".

      I have no idea what that meant and cannot find any reference to it on Google, either. Unfortunately, I can't remember which relative or when it was, but I'm pretty sure it was early 20th Century.

      Just another one of those little mysteries I guess...

      Delete
    2. Shamash,

      The history of public education in America is actually quite interesting. It's a shame we don't cover this history in public schools - with the exception of forced busing if you happen to live in Charlotte.

      Delete
    3. I really enjoyed the book Pamela Grundy wrote on the history of women's basketball. I found the parallels between woman's basketball and the history of American modern dance fascinating. My father enjoyed her book enough to share parts of it with a Rotary Club as a guest speaker.

      If I thought Pamela could write an unbiased book on the history of public education in America, I'd buy it. And maybe she can - but I have my reservations.

      Delete
    4. Pamela writing anything unbiased about education--never going to happen!

      Delete
    5. But her book about the history of women's basketball was really good. And she didn't shy away from the topic of lesbians related to the field.

      Delete
  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  6. Check out the just posted Your Schools article on Observer website:
    CMS superintendent (non)search takes on racial overtones
    You all are going to love it!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And merge that with the previous article about some Blacks who don't want to get into a drawn out reassignment project.

      Charlotte is on the cusp of getting on the on-ramp of cities like Baltimore, Detroit and Atlanta.

      I predict that within the next 10 years, Charlotte will be there.

      Delete
    2. I think you are right, Wiley.

      Charlotte's "community" isn't the same community it was. Not by a long shot. There are too many families from out-of-state living here now who can't begin to grapple with Charlotte's history of forced busing and the underlying politics that still impact CMS today. The old guard crowd don't get this but neither do newcomers from areas like the Northeast who don't have a clue to how things operate in a massive county-wide system with a history of legal segregation in the area of schools, hospitals, water fountains, and lunch counters.

      We all want diversity except when diversity negatively impacts our own children.

      CMS isn't going to win another forced diversity agenda. CMS will continue to loose this fight. We are way past the tipping point here.

      Personally, I think Ann Clark gets this which is why she is advocating for voluntary integration at highly sought after magnet schools. Make the best magnet schools more accessible and then focus on improving neighborhood schools by meeting students and communities where they are. And the thing is, taking a community from a state letter grade of an F to a C is far better than continuing the road we've been on in an arrogant fashion that continues to think that throwing millions of external dollars at the problem without internal buy-in will solve anything.

      Delete
    3. I also think it makes more sense to solve the obvious problems in the schools (behavior, lack of interest, low performance) and THEN see if the "more desirable" people want to attend.

      Because unless they are planning to install a total police state, forced diversity has not and will never work.

      Also, it would help if they wouldn't put the magnets in such obviously bad neighborhoods. Just who do they think they are kidding?

      The Waddell Language Academy is a prime example. We actually thought it might be worth moving into CMS boundaries to attend this school, but went through the OLD neighborhood it was in, with all the thugs-in-training just hanging out on the streets, and decided we didn't want to put our kids in that environment.

      Of course, the NEW location is just as bad.

      And there is really NO EXCUSE for that.

      Delete
    4. Yeah, the CO article was a real softball, lobbed right down the center of home plate.

      So, yes, I had to take a few swings at it.

      But I think we ALL know where CMS and CharMeck is heading.

      There's really no denying the future of the place. It is destined to be "little" Detroit, Atlanta, Baltimore, Birmingham (well, maybe "bigger" Birmingham...), etc., etc.

      I really hope they don't screw up what decent parts of CharMeck are left.

      Not sure if Ballantyne will ever secede, but I would support it doing so if given the option.

      Delete
  7. Shamash,

    I taught children at the Harris YMCA for over 20 years - the Harris Y drawing some of the most educated and "desirable" families in Charlotte. I had several students who attended Waddell Language Academy who impressed me with their intellect and foreign language abilities. This school works because it is a FULL magnet school that is highly specific and unique. The area in which it is located isn't Ballantyne but it's not located in the ghetto either which is where magnet schools should be located.

    Northwest School of the Arts is another example of a FULL magnet school that offers a highly specific curriculum and is located in an area that is borderline but not the pitts. NWSA received a letter grade of a B from the state last year. I had a number of students at the Harris Y who attended this school including an administrative director whose daughter just started her freshman year at UNC-Chapel Hill.

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  8. Shamash,

    Kennedy Middle School's STEM program will never draw the Harris YMCA crowd. Ever. Morrison and his hyper expansion of magnet schools didn't get this. Ann Clark does.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Well, 3AM on this blog is 3PM in my parts....

    For anyone who thinks I'm a night owl, I'm not.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Welllll... not sure if we want to know about your parts!

      Delete
    2. Well, that's actually a relief.

      Delete
  10. Posted Sept. 28th WBTV.com via the Charlotte Observer.

    Well, what a shocker. Massachusetts ranks number 1 for teachers with North Carolina ranked 50th - up from 51st last year. West Virgina won the dubious 51st ranking this year. Rankings are done by Wallethub, an online personal finance information clearinghouse.

    And our state legislators can't figure out why CMS is still trying to fill vacancies at "high impact" schools almost two months into the school year that many teachers want to leave two months after they're hired.

    Again, I have no problem with NC's recent adoption of MA teaching license standards. However, NC teachers meeting these higher standards are now going to have far more options elsewhere at higher pay. If I were 22 and just out of college with student loans, where would I want to teach? And yes, I'd like to think there is a correlation between teacher pay and student achievement which appears to be happening in Massachusetts.

    ReplyDelete
  11. And I don't care if someone takes offense at the suggestion that the North is doing it better. I've lived in NC for 23 years, hold a dual certification teaching license in the state of NC, and have children who attended NC public schools so I have the right to say, "Massachusetts does it better".

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Well, people who take offense at suggestions that others are doing things better are just being defensive, don't you think?

      The thing most people do today, though, is just redefine "better".

      After all, it all depends on what the definition of "is" is, doesn't it?

      Seems I've heard that somewhere before...

      But, seriously, I do understand that some people have legitimate questions about relying too much on standardized test scores, but there is a good reason we have those.

      As for myself, I tend to view these standardized tests as a baseline.

      Even a perfect score on one doesn't mean that you're educated or able to solve complex problems.

      But failing one miserably probably means you can't read, 'rite, or 'rithmetic very well.

      And, of course, there are always exceptions, but that's true of just about everything which measures anything about groups of people.

      If you have a place like Massachusetts (or Finland or Shanghai) it is worthwhile to look at what they are doing which might make a difference.

      Of course, every "difference" may not be THE difference which matters the most.

      That's the difficult part.

      Delete
    2. "Of course, every "difference" may not be THE difference which matters the most.

      That's the difficult part".

      Which is why states and individual school districts should be given some level of autonomy because what works "here" might not work "there".

      I remember CMS moving principals every time one was successful at raising achievement scores at a low-income school. And guess what? The minute the successful principal left, the school that had made such great strides landed right back where it started.

      Delete
    3. Oh, and on a lighter note...

      It seems that Finland may not be EVERYONE's idea of perfection...

      I just LOVED this article. Maybe Finland can be my home someday.

      http://news.yahoo.com/finlands-no-good-disappointed-migrants-turn-back-152042061.html

      "You can tell the world I hate Finland. It's too cold, there's no tea, no restaurants, no bars, nobody on the streets, only cars," 22-year-old Muhammed told AFP in Tornio, as the mercury struggled to inch above 10 degrees Celsius (50 Fahrenheit) on a recent blustery grey day.

      Ha, ha, ha. Poor wittle "refugees"....

      Life's tough when you're on welfare and can't find a street corner or tea shop to hang out around.

      Jeez.

      I think the Europeans are getting tired of all the refuse-gee's they're taking in.

      Which shows that they DO have a spine.

      I particularly got a kick out of the photo of the Finn in a makeshift KKK outfit (which looks like a white dunce cap fell over his face).

      Apparently a busload of refugees saw one of these demonstrations and decided to head back to Sweden.

      Ha.

      Delete
    4. "I remember CMS moving principals every time one was successful at raising achievement scores at a low-income school. And guess what? The minute the successful principal left, the school that had made such great strides landed right back where it started."

      Sounds like the makings of a good "study"...

      See if the improvements follow the teachers/principals/whatever.

      Of course, that would take some time.

      And, unfortunately, the schools usually change THEIR measurements too frequently, so they'd need a consistent tool to measure their results.

      But, it seems to me that with all the BS out there, SOMEONE would have tried something like this SOMEWHERE.

      But probably not.

      Because that gets too close to a real experiment to find out real causes and possibly even real solutions.

      It's must easier to massage those federal databases with their incomplete and likely bogus information.

      Delete
    5. As we head into another tsunami of "change agent" change, I'd like to see a good study related to CMS stability. Is there a correlation between school stability and student achievement?

      But a study like this would require something that many in "the community" won't accept because 40 plus years of instability has worked such wonderful wonders.

      Delete
    6. "Finland is no good," the men echoed each other.

      And there you have it? Lol. With such a superior education system.

      How about a good study about the correlation between freezing temperatures and student achievement?

      Delete
  12. I was thinking...

    NWSA is a majority minority school with a fair amount of "fragile" students and students from very undesirable neighborhoods that's received two B's from the state. Why is this and why isn't our "community" doing a better job of getting this school up to an "A"? Here's a school that actually has the potential of achieving minority greatness where others have failed. And without a football program or afro-centric curriculum, no less. How many majority minority schools received a "B" from the state the past two years? How many majority minority STEM schools received a "B"?

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    1. Yeah, I don't understand why they don't do that kind of stuff, either.

      It seems to me that a few good, solid examples of successes in the real world might be something worth achieving.

      But people would rather fall for pie-in-the-sky babbling and crap like "Courageous Conversations" and that bozo Minister (Dr.) Gyasi A. Foluke with his "Kushite Institute for Wholistic Development" we heard about recently.

      http://tkifwd.tripod.com/foluke.htm

      Seems that the witch doctors and snake oil salesmen pretty much have most popular solutions (even if unproven) to the education "problem" in this country.

      If you follow the media and the masses, that is.

      Delete
    2. Also, to be quite honest, I really do not understand why some group (say NAACP) hasn't formed their own school and done it the way they keep telling everyone else is the best way.

      Surely they, if anyone, have the bully pulpit to get this done.

      But they really do not seem to care.

      It makes me wonder if they are afraid that they will lose their support if "their people" actually do close that "gap".

      Poverty pimping is big money today for everyone now.

      So it's probably not going to get better.

      There's just something sick about having organizations with people making huge wads of money to "fight" poverty.

      Especially when things just seem to get worse once their solutions are implemented.

      I smell a nice scam in it all.

      Delete
    3. As I'm reminded of the former Charlotte United Way leader making wads of money who was ousted before hiring Bill Deihl to represent her case.

      Delete
    4. There really is no difference between women and men or between races when it comes to corruption related to money.

      Delete
    5. "There really is no difference between women and men or between races when it comes to corruption related to money."

      Not much to build on, is it?

      Delete
  13. I thought it was interesting when 60 Minutes (last night) asked Vladimir Putin what he admired most about America?

    His answer? America's creativity. Same answer many give in other places like China and India and one reason, I believe, we continue to be the envy of the world in the area of higher education.

    Rather ironic comment from Putin considering the lack of artistic freedom in his own country now and in the past.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Yes, we do seem to be on the top of that heap, at least as far as worldwide impressions go.

      Although, "boring" Finland did create Angry Birds.

      Yeah, the educational system for most people in Asia is a bit stifling.

      It's in the news all the time here.

      Along with all the "overachievers" and the pressure to do well.

      Quite a bit different from the US in that regard.

      But I found an interview with the French International School principal in Hong Kong and he was just gushing about creativity.

      In fact, he even talked about how great it would be if schools taught dance and drama every day just as they do mathematics.

      So, if you ever move to Hong Kong, there's a school for you...

      Delete
    2. Oh, yeah, and he mentions Sir Ken Robinson and that speech "Do schools kill creativity?".

      I tried to find a link, but it's apparently a "supplement" to The Standard, so it's not searchable, but it can be read online in their "flippable" version of the paper.

      You can visit their website...

      http://paper.thestandard.com.hk/?archive=1

      This is the "flipping" archive which flips like newspaper pages.

      Look in 2015-09-29 on page 20 (left side of 20-21, you may need to scroll).

      The article is called "Head of International Stream speaks about the importance of creativity in schools"

      Delete
    3. Oh, the flippable paper uses Adobe Flash, so you you may need to get that software if you don't have it.

      And it's a free paper here, so none of that BS the CO has about blocking access.

      But the flippable version archives only stays online for two weeks or so.

      Delete
    4. Also, just in general, you will find that a heck of a lot of Asians are in our universities nowadays.

      The latest immigration stories are all about how the Asians are becoming the largest number of immigrants.

      Of course, it's hard to tell if they mean legal or illegal, but most Asians get to the US legally from what I understand.

      Delete
  14. Wish they would break up the immigration for the Asian population totals with eastern or western Asians. You rarely see that breakdown and it matters, though both parental styles are very similar when it comes to education. The west coast sees a higher immigration of Eastern Asian and no doubt east coast sees a higher immigration of Western Asian. At Panera Bread, I saw parents from India badgering their 3 year old with question about what words were past, present or future tenses (needless to say the 3 year old was the least bit interested) but no wonder these kids take education so seriously (but as a generalization, these kids are so socially awkward and boring per American standards). But I think it does matter for CMS because I don't think in general the Western Asian parents interact with the PTAs and integration of their kids socially with the school, which I think is problematic.

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    1. I'd like to see this as well. In fact, I'd like to see more breakdowns of the Hispanics and others, too. Not just by "race", but by other factors as well, including currently "taboo" topics such as actual income and family situations.

      But that'll never happen. It's too disruptive of the status quo.

      But, as someone who has spent some time in Asia, I can guarantee you that "Asians" ARE NOT one homogeneous blob.

      That's for sure. There is a definite pecking order involved which seems to be somewhat universal.

      The Chinese do fairly well just about anywhere they go in Asia, including places where they are "minorities" such as Indonesia, Malaysia, and such.

      The main reason Singapore and Hong Kong work so well is that they are primarily Chinese. Singapore was actually founded on "racial" strife between the Chinese and Malays.

      The Malays run Malaysia (pretty much) and the difference shows, especially if you travel to East vs. West Malaysia and see the difference Islam/Malay culture really makes.

      And, of course, there are differences between people from India/Pakistan/Nepal/Burma(Myanmar) and Vietnam, Laos,
      Cambodia, Thailand.

      And even in the US we have Hmong refugees in places like Minnesota which have struggled (but who still manage to do pretty well, at least as far as staying out of trouble and taking education seriously goes).

      A lot of it has to do with family structure, but we can't talk about that in the US without offending people, so we don't even collect the data.

      As for the "integration" part, well that's pretty much the case everywhere. Even in Hong Kong, Malaysia, and Singapore.

      I've seen examples of "discrimination" between races and religions that would be shocking to most people in the US, but it is just the way they manage to "get along".

      Really, most Chinese find Indians quite obnoxious.

      And once you've been in a place like Hong Kong for a while, you begin to notice that it is OFTEN the Indians who are likely to be "misbehaving" in public by being too loud, taking up the aisles on the buses/trains, etc., and other forms of borish behavior (benign as it may seem to Westerners...)

      But those things to make a difference in daily life and do make people tend to cling to "their own".

      I also might add that a LOT of the street crime and gang activity in Hong Kong is done by South Asians (Indians, Pakistanis, Nepalis and such)

      Not a lot of "gun crime" here, but a lot of crowbars, sticks, knives, etc., etc. being used to get business done.

      Delete
    2. Also, I might add that the Koreans and Japanese seem to be in a world pretty much of their own. They are the people who seem most likely to refuse to "integrate" wherever else they live.

      A lot of it has to do with language, but I think other cultural differences matter, too.

      We almost decided to send out kids to the Korean international school in HK, and were accepted but found another place we liked better.

      The Koreans and Japanese are fairly well regarded in HK, but they are a very small group and don't really have many "enclaves" that I know of.

      Delete
    3. When I lived in China for a year, for example, I could IMMEDIATELY tell when I had entered "Koreatown".

      The way I could tell is that the streets were suddenly IMMACULATE and everything looked well maintained compared to the rest of the places (talking primarily about Shenyang).

      It was almost comical to see the difference crossing a street into the "Korean" area made...

      Delete